JBO: your liberty link is broken. (Looks like
you forgot the 'y' in the source.)

The issue of the right of return was explicitly discussed at Camp David 2000 and was in fact one of the stumbling blocks. It's not "part of the Palestinian discourse." It's been on the table for a long time.

That US analyst is no analyst: he's a damn liar!

Sure, but article 11 of the resolution says that the "refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours..." should be permitted to return. When have the Palestinians wanted to "live at peace" with the Zionist "sons of monkeys and pigs?" Palestine, from river to sea...sound like peace to you?

I think you meant AFP, not AP. I've found AFP usually slightly better than AP and Reuters...but not by much.

It's not in permissible discourse. (Birthday hat tip to Noam Chomsky.)

We May Be Literally Too Stupid To Live

Frankly, I really do think it's about time for that asteroid to come along and do some good.

Want to see retarded? Check this out:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12072006/frontback.htm

Sure, but article 11 of the resolution says that the "refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours..." should be permitted to return. When have the Palestinians wanted to "live at peace" with the Zionist "sons of monkeys and pigs?" Palestine, from river to sea...sound like peace to you?

Before I even read the comments I knew damn well I'd have to hear the usual talmudic parsing of U.N. resolutions which invariably occurs. Extra points for working in some wierd islamophobic blather.

I'll ignore the idiocy of trying to work out some fucked up legalese for why you can run people into a garbage dump and steal all their property and bank accounts, but just to see if maybe there is a human underneath that screwed up zionist script have you thought about how you sound?

Say someone asked when Jews wanted to live in peace with "cockroaches" and threw in some choice quotes from the talmud. Wouldn't you instantly know you were talking to someone with a worm eaten brain? Why can't you understand what' wrong with you?

Sure, but article 11 of the resolution says that the "refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours..." should be permitted to return. When have the Palestinians wanted to "live at peace" with the Zionist "sons of monkeys and pigs?" Palestine, from river to sea...sound like peace to you?

if you can prove that israel made an offer to the palestinians in these terms (that they could all return if they renounced violence(1)), then you have a point. but since you can't, you don't.

(1) perhaps you can also explain the pressing need to have the palestinians renounce violence in the period before the 73 war.

But say, just for the talmudic parsing fun of it, the Palestinians and their Arab brothers had accepted the initial UN partition, you'd have Israel behind the 1948 borders.
If you object to any Jewish state in the ME, the Zionist dream and the motivating circumstances notwithstanding, that I can understand. After the Holocaust, the Jews should have been given Austria, homeland of unser Fuehrer and ferocious anti-semitism. But the US and European white men
running the UN weren't about to do that. Dump those pesky Jews on the swarthy Arabs.
Too late. Now the Israelis are (almost) as nasty a bunch as the haters and intolerant God is great, God is on our side haters surrounding them.
Give the land to the Kurds, move the Jews to Shaker Heights and New Jersey and the Palestnians to Jordan. Ahhhhhh.

Within the partition plan you still wind up either physically expelling the (by far) majority population or at best you wind up with a mini-Jewish Apartheid state. No one sane would agree to have this imposed on them.

Yes, yes. But the UN did it, those cute Exodus Jews danced the Hora, and the whole area has been (mostly) one bloody shithole since.
If not partition then, what? Nobody had an answer then, nobody has one now. Exterminate the Jews now, another Holocaust. Expel the Palestinians, ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Live together? You and I may wish, but even the Dean of Students at Yale wouldn't choose such roomies.
A rational, humane solution, acceptable to both sides? Knowing both sides, after more than half a century of bloodshed and hate, what?

Everyone is wishing to live at peace with their neighbors.

Obviously those expelled have the right to come back. And then those who moved in from abroad and feel that living at peace with their neighbors is not possible should move back where they came from.

What's wrong with this solution?

How is Israel keeping gas flowing into my 6,000 pound SUV?

The right of return isn't discussed because it effectively kills the state of Israel. The refugee population is now way more than it was in '48 - if they can all come back, the "Jewish" state is wiped out because of the "demographic problem". While Zionists aren't willing to accept that, it won't be on the table.

As to donescobar - why should we accept the Zionist premise to begin with? Or are you saying that the past is past and we should just deal with it (or not, since it's an "impossible problem")?

I'm not asking you to "accept" the Zionist premise. But, can you understand it? Say you're a Jew in 1947, most of your family in Lithuania has been wiped out, 80% other side of the family in Hungary is gone as well. As the trains were rolling to the camps, none of the civilized countries were willing to take in the Jews still alive. (Recall the plight of the St. Louis, read "While Six Million died" etc) Now the war is over, the Poles, the Romanians,the Croats are still seething Jew-haters, the Allies are taking in a few Jews, you certainly aren't going to go to Germany or Austria...what was 'open" except the USA to some, Palestine (legally or not) to many more. Herzl's dream (or scheme, to others) may not have legitimacy (but then, can you name other countries founded on land already inhabited by others or simply "established" there....easy)and maybe you never wanted to live in a "Jewish" state, BUT...BUT...BUT. Why Palestine? Nobody, not the Jews, not the so-called "world community" came up with any other or better idea. And tossing the Jews back into those loving, gentle European societies so eager to kill them, or at least enjoy watching them disappear or die, that wasn't (then) acceptable. So, the UN did what the UN did. At the expense of the Palestinians, indeed.Again, I would have given them Austria, and the Austrians could have enjoyed the Second Anschluss to Germany.

...what was 'open" except the USA to some, Palestine (legally or not) to many more.

That's a libel. Far, far more Jews emigrated to the U.S. than Palestine despite the best mechanizations of various zionist organizations who were administering DP camps.

Between 1939 and 1945 the USA accepted about 250,000 Jewish refugees.In terms of its size and population, that was__________. You choose the adjective.
Read the books about the attitude and response by the US government. Jews have done better here than anywhere else, but those years were not golden moments. Not unlike what Lowell did about admissions of Jews to Harvard when he was its president. Except that those rejected Jews could go to City College or Cornell. Not the fate that awaited the passengers, for example, of the St. Louis.

The 1947 experiment didn't work, it failed, that's obvious, isn't it?

You could, I suppose, blame it on inhospitality of the locals, or, you could argue (much more convincingly IMO) that it's the responsibility of newcomers to fit into the new environment, and they blew it - but either way the installation has failed. Rollback.

*or, you could argue (much more convincingly IMO) that it's the responsibility of newcomers to fit into the new environment, and they blew it*

Gosh, common theme amongst extremists to control immigrants. Learn our language or else.

Should we apply such learnings to Israelis? Like that would work.

Perhaps would the Israelis even try to meld in, peace might be achievable.

It was poorly stated, but the Israelis are everything immigrant bashers fear except they are real. Unlike the usual suspects who get beat on in the U.S. or Europe they did come there to take over, and they did.

It did start as immigration.

I don't care whose language it is.

Good job!