Well, obviously he would respond that 'oil' is included his concept of 'security'. In this particular region 'security' means 'control of oil', in other regions it might be control of banana trees or copper mines or many hard-working ascetic people or strategic location.

That's what 'security' is, Jonathan.

Haven't you noticed the hankering for a "man of principle" who will carry out unpopular measures, supposedly for the good of all? A dictator, in other words, like Pinochet or Franco.

Murray wants a dictator.

Thank you for posting this, your email is priceless.

Another reason the pols are afraid of pulling out now is because they haven't ruined Iraq enough.

What if we leave before all hope is lost? What if Iraq eventually recovers from what we've done, after we've gone, and it becomes obvious to the whole world, possibly even to some Americans, that the US was the reason Iraq came unravelled after we invaded, as opposed to the inherent barbarity of those ungrateful brown-skinned people?

But if the US stays long enough to completely ruin Iraq, then we can't possibly be blamed for the complete ruin of Iraq.

Plus, as a bonus, our hand-picked kleptocrats will beg us to remain in some of them military bases. You know, the ones we built but wanted to hand over to the Iraqis, just like we wanted to help them privatize their oil industry.

(I hope she liked your letter.)

Yeah, Murray didn't say oil and should have. The real question of the day is do you want to leave 30% of the world's oil supply in the hands of folks who hate our guts?

This war was stupid and ill-advised. But we can't leave without the resource we came to get - unless you particularly relish turning your lives upside down. Because that's what would happen if this oil supply went away because of an unconstrained civil war or became really, really expensive for those of us not trading in Euros.

Given that most of the people who control the other 70% of the oil hate us as well we ought to think pretty hard about our next steps. And the fact that your average department store manager and orthodontist doesn't get this is Murray's point I think.

When are people gonna realize Bush knows what is best for US? Jeeze.

Even 25 years later, I am still terrified of my orthodontist. I think we probably should have him running the Pentagon. I guarantee that none of the terrified children going through that office said "Doc, what I really want is a mouthful of metal that makes me look like a fucking dweeb" and yet they all walked out that way. Now THAT'S a guy who can get things done.

And the fact that your average department store manager and orthodontist doesn't get this is Murray's point I think.

I don't really buy any of the oil stuff here, but let's say for the sake of argument it's true. Then, who exactly is to blame for the fact the average department store manager and orthodontist doesn't know this? Is it institutions like...the Washington Post? And can specific individuals be blamed, such as the Post's Congressional correspondent, whose name turns out to be Shailagh Murray? Because I can't really recall this type of frank discussion about our need for oil and what we might have to do to get it in the pages of the Post.

In other words, this is like a high school algebra teacher dismissing her students' desire to have some say in what happens to them "because they don't know anything about algebra."

None,
How many people is it fair to murder so that your life can stay right side up?

Posted by none:
"The real question of the day is do you want to leave 30% of the world's oil supply in the hands of folks who hate our guts?"

The fishmonger hates my guts. Then again, he pretty much hates everybody. He still sells me fish.

ps - Machiavelli wrote that it takes both prudence and force to preserve the wealth of the principality. Adding $1.5 trillion (Stiglitz's figure as of a year ago as the bill for our Iraq invasion) to our energy costs don't seem too dagblamed prudent. Not prudent for the nation, anyway; Exxon's gonna do OK once it signs its 30-year PSA with Moe Howard's government..., er, I meant, Maliki's sovereign government. Heaven forfend I should imply Maliki's anybody's stooge.

Shailagh Murray, eh? Must be descended from those traitorous Orange Irish, bending their knees and heads to a cruel king. Ain't no way she'd be a wearin' th' green.

Given that most of the people who control the other 70% of the oil hate us as well we ought to think pretty hard about our next steps. And the fact that your average department store manager and orthodontist doesn't get this is Murray's point I think.

Posted by none

How is making the people who sell us "our oil" hate our guts - forever and always - supposed to make sure we continue to get the oil we need? I don't get it either.

But here's one thing I get: OIL PRODUCTION IN IRAQ IS DOWN SINCE THE US INVASION OF IRAQ.

I would say we better think hard about the next steps. Nuking the entire Middle East means we have to find oil workers who don't mind glowing in the dark for a very short while before they die.

NOT my idea of a career path......

WAIT, WAIT..... I GET IT!!!

It's like those battered wives - the husband just keeps beating them until the wife learns to love him!

of course, there are a few odd-ball wives who up and leave and a few more who kill their battering husbands while they sleep.

So, the real lesson to learn here that your average department store manager and orthodontist goes to sleep at times........
and we can't have that!

(did I get that right?)

"Given that most of the people who control the other 70% of the oil hate us as well"

Does that 70% include the third largest oil producer in the world?
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/topworldtables1_2.html

(Producer, not exporter - hmmm, I wonder why?)

The universe doesn't care about your petty distinctions. At some point the oil and natural gas just won't come out of the ground fast enough, no matter how much hatred is spread around the world. Bullets and bombs don't actually produce petroleum.

"unless you particularly relish turning your lives upside down...."

Turn your lives upside down - the planet will love you for it.

"Would I want a department store manager or an orthodontist running the Pentagon?"

Sure. Seems much more likely to produce a sane foreign policy than having arms dealers, oil company CEOs, and defense contractors run it.

Hacktacular!

"...the time may come when we will have to kill millions of Muslims..."

Jonathan, with your great ability to locate strikingly parallel quotations from the past, I would love to see you find Nazis or Imperial Japanese who in the 1930s were talking about how inevitable it was that they would have to kill lots of Americans. It is truly scary to hear the neocons mindlessly assume that all-out war with Muslims is only a matter of when.

I also think you could find right-wing nuts saying the same thing about the inevitable all-out war with the Soviets in the 1940s, but (thank God) they weren't in any position to make these prophecies self-fulfilling, as the current bozos are.

I certainly want to keep Iraq decisions out of the hands of my damn orthodontist! Sadistic bastard, that dude was. Fanatical Israel supporter too, but its the sadism that's my primary concern (although perhaps the two were connected).

My brother IS a department store manager, and my niece is a dentist (although not specifically an orthodontist), and I can assure you that Bush is too dim a bulb to handle either of their jobs.

On the other hand, I think they could grasp your insight about "oil", AFTER they were deprogrammed from the Two Big Lies about America that Howard Zinn has pointed out ("there is no class struggle", "America always acts altruistically overseas").

I don't know if we'll have time to communicate these ideas to the brainwashed majority of the American people before Jesus comes back, though.