Dennis is right about the tribalism at Democratic sites. Or some of them. You criticize the Democrats and there's no telling what you'll be accused of supporting.

And don't say "I accuse" and Clinton in the same sentence. (as a FELLOW COMMENTER at another site pointed out)

You know, I try real hard to read Perrin's stuff, because I know in my heart he's probably right. But he's been going around in the same circle for years now hoping that THIS TIME, THIS TIME he'll be able to pick on, bully, demoralize, and beat poor widdle wiberals and pwogressives like me into... what?

Armed resistance? Fuck no, he's got kids to feed.

George Carlin like abstention from the process? Well, gee, that's worked so well so far, why not more?

I don't have any answers for Mr. Perrin. But he might as well admit to us that he doesn't want us to have any, then the revolution would not come.

And it's coming, he hopes.

Any...

day...

now...

I think part of Dennis's point is that the problem with America isn't limited to the extreme rightwing crazies that are in power now--it's more systemic. I don't think he has answers. I think it's good for people to understand this first and then they can argue about what to do about it, but you don't have to go to very many liberal blogs to find that there are numerous Democrats who seem to think all evil in America is the fault of the Republicans. Sometimes it's worse than that--you even find some who contrast the decent honorable sort of Reagan conservative with the horrible Bush-supporting type. I remember the previous kind and it's the same species.

As for bullying poor wittle pwogwessives, yeah, right. Democrats are such shrinking violets when it comes to standing up to those further to their left. Actually, people further to their left seem to be about the only people Democrats can bully.

Mike, that was one thread I had in mind, but I've seen others.

I was being sarcastic about the bullying part. I've tried to buy into the "it's all broken, there's not a dime's worth of difference" party line, but it doesn't work for me.

I also think it's funny for a guy who by my estimation has the exact same blog nervous breakdown every three days bitches about Glenn Greenwald being repetitive.

There is a dime's worth of difference between the two, and more than a dime, depending on the issue, but not nearly enough of a difference. Not sure exactly what DP would say on this--he has voted and worked for Democratic candidates, including Kerry last time around.

If people know and understand just how bad the Democrats are, then a lot of what DP has to say is old news. But it's new news and very unwelcome news to a lot of people as best I can tell.

REPUBLICRATS, bless their empty heads. YET ANOTHER reason to IMPEACH. IMPEACHMENT puts a halt to EVERYBODIES' plans, gives US a breathing space to think things over, and OPENS UP for discussion and reflection of the facts, so WE as a People, can make the INFORMED DECISIONS WE NEED.

I've tried to buy into the "it's all broken, there's not a dime's worth of difference" party line, but it doesn't work for me.

You were trying to buy into a fatuous caricature. Perhaps that's why it didn't work out for you. Starting with the assumption that "it's all broken" is the first mistake. It's very obviously not broken. It's working just fine for some, less well for others and not at all for a great many. The hunt for a dime's worth of difference between the people for whom it is working out is chasing the cape.

I also think it's funny for a guy who by my estimation has the exact same blog nervous breakdown every three days bitches about Glenn Greenwald being repetitive.

Estimate less and your hallucinatory experiences will gradually diminish.

Armed resistance? Fuck no, he's got kids to feed.

'Cos it won't get you anywhere
Fooling with your guns
The BritishU.S Army is waiting out there
An' it weighs fifteen hundred tons

Starting with the assumption that "it's all broken" is the first mistake. It's very obviously not broken. It's working just fine for some, less well for others and not at all for a great many.

an excellent point

Perhaps the most serious problem facing us is the tribalism discussed in both links. The system itself is not broken, though it only benefits the few at the moment. The system relies on different points of view having a legal framework to discuss those points of view. The system is designed for the arts of debate, compromise, and consensus.

Debate is now shrill name calling and looking for a soundbite or zinger opening. Compromise is getting enough political power to ram your political ideas down everyone else's throat. And consensus...well if that even exists anymore it has has become a plaything of power. That is, this works for us, keeping us in power and making us richer. It certainly is not used to solve problems, probably because it relies on compromise as a prerequisite.

What discourages me is not the behavior of the right wing...i expect them to attack, belittle, and refuse to listen. It has been working for them for at least 50 years. But it feels as though the left has either descended to the same level as the rabid right or decided that it works for the right so it will work for the left.

That there is nowhere for people in the middle to go (A Tiny Revolution is the exception that proves the rule) is the most disheartening aspect of the American political scene today.