...as a terribly aberrant, uniquely un-American act foisted on a frightened country and unprepared world by the avatar of awfulness...The young Democrats' faith in electoralism and disdain for any generalized critique of the American state is based on the faulty idea that if only the right people were running the policy apparatus, then the power of government would be used for good and we would only invade countries when, you know, it was really important....

I am the autistic person that does not understand irony and/or sarcasm....so...

From my POV, it sure looks like the tepid American progressive psyche is the equivalent of the European center-right. With that in mind, I seriously doubt that American progressives could contain themselves from acting like conservatives lite. Conservative lites and conservative fascist, both have the need to throw down their Johnson, and whip out a ruler. Looking at the Clin-ton administration and it's propensity for gun barrel diplomacy, the usual refrain is, "well, it's a matter of scope. We killed far fewer, and more professionally... we were considerate enough to lube you up first."

If I've totally missed the subtext, then nevermind...

Now, I think it is possible for the progressives to be globally enlightened, but not as long as they have the nukes and other effective weapons at their disposal.

I got maybe 1/3 the way through all that before abandoning the effort.

I would likely be thought by most a liberal. Indeed, by some, a lunatic liberal.

But I opposed the Great Tragedy for simpler reasons. Reason #1 is that I read history.

".. If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I never would lay down my arms--never--never--never"!

Lord Chatham (aka Pitt The Elder) spoke those words to the British Parliament in 1777.

IOZ is Walter Karp---he lives!

"An electorate growing restive over economic conditions would find its attention riveted to the spectacle of America's overseas power and pursuits, its republican sentiments diluted and deformed by jingo nationalism, its political energies absorbed by overseas problems and perplexities."

Karp wrote this about the situation in 1890, long before Bush, or anybody still alive, describing what is now an American institution (war) which is independent of any personalities.

He may be you, but... why didn't he tell you?

So what happened to the blurg spat between you "two"? Two days and its done? And with only 37 comments, each thoughtful, considerate, earnestly struggling to see things from the others point of view - just pathetic, really.

And you people dare to call yourselves leftists! By now you should have irreconcilably splintered into the Peoples Liberation Front of Judea and the Judean Peoples Liberation Front. You should be staring daggers at each other through a haze of Galois smoke from opposite ends of the cafe. Or something like that.

I'm Billmon.

I'm Spartacus.

Gauloises? Or are we thinking of separable normal field extensions? Well, Galois was a revolutionary who got smoked at age twenty, so I guess it works either way.

I'm both Billmon and Spartacus, so this makes me even more suspicious about IOZ.

I'm Mike Meyer. (Now lets see you claim that one. Hint- I'll only believe you if you can spout Nancy's phone number from memory)

Love that post. It finally has dawned upon me how the blob that is the government truely functions.

MIKE MEYER would have used ALL CAPS at random THROUGHOUT his post.

I am Arvin Hill, and my boots are pointier than all your heads combined.