DARREL: See you at Eschacon, Jonathan.

JONATHAN: Not if I see you first, Darrel.

...who tries to make us uncomfortable.

A testament to HST's optimism.

I wouldn't have thought that the standard was so constraining.

"220 million used car salesmen"

You will like, if you have not already read, "A Nation of Salesmen" by Earl Shorris. hb 1994, pb 1996

But we're not so good at it any longer. The sign in NJ, "Trenton Makes, The World Takes" has been tranlated into Chinese.

NO MATTER how good a salesman YOU might be, the gun still makes it look like armed robbery, especially if YOU empty the till and shoot the place up before YOU go.

Well, it looks as if rootin' tootin' maverick McCain has moved into at least a tie with either Clinton or Obama.

I guess having the entire mainstream media as a propaganda arm is especially good for making the bullshit that he "isn't capable of" work.

I'm sure there are some people who have had their house foreclosed and lost a child in Iraq who are now telling pollsters that they'd like to vote for McCain.

[Sarcasm]Fortunately, it doesn't matter. "The two parties are the same." Anyone who perceives, say, Obama, as being marginally less disastrous, is logically the equivalent of someone who thinks that Obama is "perfect". Anyone who perceives a difference between having some negative traits in common (the way a common cold and bubonic plague have some negative traits in common) and being essentially "the same" is "naive". Anyone who notes that people in other countries are also severely impacted by US pollution and militarism, and would be delighted with any decrease, is a reactionary who doesn't dig the movement.

Staying in Iraq, bombing Iran, and not letting the Bush tax cuts expire is just as good as doing the opposite. Appointing a few more wingnuts to the supreme court and a few more anti-science religious nuts to the bureaucracy is dandy, too.

So it really doesn't matter. It will be just as good to elect McCain. So remember to focus on how bad Obama is most of the time. Ideally, register in Florida or Ohio, even if you have to move, so that you can vote for Nader. You have nothing to lose, because it's really all just the same.[/sarcasm]

Great, even more blood on Nader's hands.

Shouldn't they be old enough before you can pick on them? I mean who expects any 23 year old Americans to KNOW ANYTHING really?

Ideally, register in Florida or Ohio, even if you have to move, so that you can vote for Nader.

But Harold, I can vote for Nader right here in Wisconsin, a state that's almost as swingin' as Florida or Ohio.

And I'll be doing that (or voting for Cynthia McKinney, who is "just the same" in your book), just to piss you off.

“I’m almost incapable of bullshit.”

someone should inform her(and dad as well) that just because it's coming out of the other end, doesn't mean it's not bull plop.

also, thanks to this blogpost i have found a new, unlimited renewable resource of energy: it is the relentless spinning of irony in its grave.

And I'll be doing that (or voting for Cynthia McKinney, who is "just the same" in your book), just to piss you off

Of course you will. And that's exactly why you'll do it. As a gesture of "rebellion". To piss imaginary "squares" off.

But here's the catch, Stevarino. I'm not some nine year old Iraqi kid with his arms blown off by a US bomb. Hell, I'm not even in Iraq, or even in the military, and I'll never have to go there, nor to Iran. I have health insurance. I didn't put my life-savings into an overpriced house that collapsed in value. (In fact I sold an apartment for a tidy profit, but in a market where stuff isn't collapsing, so the buyer is happy, too.) I have an education. McCain can't do very much to hurt me directly. I'm sure that's all true of you, too. Probably by way of parents to a large degree. It must be. Otherwise you'd...care.

On top of all that, Estefan, I have the legal right to live, work, and have excellent "government" health insurance in another country that's not experiencing a massive decline in the value of its currency, its prestige, or its economy. I can jump into a life boat any time I want. So why do I even care? I guess it's just "enlightened self-interest". It will be better for everyone if the US doesn't further implode into a fiery mess.

And on top of all that, your McKinney vote really won't piss me off very much. If McCain loses Wisconsin, it won't matter. And if he wins, it will be the morons who voted for McCain that I'll really be pissed off at, not a few permanently teen-aged "anarchists" who would have just stayed home and, well, done other things, if there wasn't a spoiler party they could boast about supporting on the ballot.

So to some degree, you might want to reconsider this whole "voting to piss someone off" thing.

He just said that to piss you off, harold.

Harold's point is an excellent one.

How many of you Nader voters could look that Iraqi kid in the eye(s) and explain why putting GWB in the White House was the right move ?

How many of you Nader voters could look that Iraqi kid in the eye(s) and explain why putting GWB in the White House was the right move?

Gore voter, don't us "Bush in 2000" voters get any love? There's a few of us here.

I'm trying to convince as many disgruntled Democrats that voting for McCain is a good way to protest when Obama or Hillary don't get nominated. And I'm hoping it's going to work because by November all it's going to take is a 2-3% swing that's up in arms over their candidate not being selected.

Did you check out Hillary warming up to Richard Mellon Scaife the other day? Oh, priceless.

Oh, fuck off Harold. Yes, I rip the arms off little Iraqi children just to piss you off. I like the way your voice gets all screechy and that vein on your forehead bulges out. You're cute when you're angry, you know.

How many of you Nader voters could look that Iraqi kid in the eye(s) and explain why putting GWB in the White House was the right move ?

None. Firstly, because the US is not taking any Iraqi refugees,in whose population you may be able to find children to look in the eye. And second, those who voted for Nader did not vote for Bush, who i thought stole the election anyway.

Yes, I rip the arms off little Iraqi children just to piss you off. I like the way your voice gets all screechy and that vein on your forehead bulges out. You're cute when you're angry, you know.

I don't think he really meant that one either!

Yes, I rip the arms off little Iraqi children just to piss you off. I like the way your voice gets all screechy and that vein on your forehead bulges out. You're cute when you're angry, you know.

I don't think he really meant that one either!

I disagree.

I think these comments are very revealing, albeit unintentionally so.

My posts raised rational points (including a fair number of rational reasons why I'm not particularly "pissed off" at all on a personal level).

The use of sarcasm as a defense against reasoned arguments is revealing.

Of course, Stevie B doesn't do his thing to "piss off" me, personally. He has no idea who I am. We've never met. I know he lives in Wisconsin, because he said so, and I believe him. We both use male names. That's about all we know about each other.

Obviously, McKinney voters and Nader voters "piss me off" less than Republican voters. Duh. I said so.

My original post was intended to connect with maybe one or two (silent) readers and make them more likely to fight McCain effectively. Wouldn't surprise me if it worked. If not, whatever.

However, I think that when Stevie said that his motivation is rebellion - to piss people off - he spoke the truth, consciously or unconsciously.

A fairly progressive African-American man is running, in a country that had segregation when a lot of not-very-old senior citizens were already in college, against a warmongering wingnut. And the "rebellious" thing to do is to vote for some upper class "third party" candidate who doesn't even want to win, thus helping McCain. Sure it is. Enjoy your revolution.

Obama is not progressive at all. His preacher is, however, so I will vote for Rev. Wright.