I agree. They should start using something less stilted and ceremonial, like, say, Marty King.

What's wrong with just "King"? True, there are some situations where honorifics are called for, and for those moments I will, in my position as King Of Usage, allow the use of "Dr." But not that many situations.

The UK way:

M. L. King

What's a "nice white liberal" anyway? Are those the characters in The New Yorker cartoons?

I see nothing wrong with this. Did not King, like a doctor, dissect and analyze the malaise at the heart of the American condition and prescribe a means to heal? Well, he got shot by the patient, but that is another matter altogether.

What's a "nice white liberal" anyway? Are those the characters in The New Yorker cartoons?

Yes, although they frequently congregate outside of the pages of the magazines as well.

Just "King"? Seems a bit bland. How about something with a little more pizazz, like M. Luther K., PhD?

No, if you're going to take it in that direction I say go all the way: King Kingly Kingman Of Kingliness Kingland (Dr.).

COnsidering that his PhD was in theology, which is worse than useless, I am also in favor of dropping the Dr.

Nobody doesn't know who you mean when you say Martin Luther King.

But I don't think "King" is enough for a first mention, most of the time

Wouldn't it be best not to emphasize the Ph.D., given that in 1991 a committee at Boston U found quite a bit of his dissertation plagiarized? (No attribution for large segments from others' works.) It must be in the air in Boston--Harvard Law faculty members, the peerless Dershowitz among them, seem to have caught the big P virus also.

I don't understand. Should people not show respect for MLK? In India people generally refer to Gandhi as Gandhiji, purely to show respect. What does this have to do with white liberal attitudes? The guy deserves our respect for all that he did. Let's apply whatever honorifics we can. Reverend, Dr., Reverend Dr., whatever.

saurabh: Joking aside, I see both Jon's point and yours. Regarding Jon's, I'd speculate that many of the nice white liberals who reflexively genuflect to King's acceptable forms of protest with things like the "Dr." honorific would reject his rhetoric on Vietnam (as many nice white liberals did when he was alive, and voicing it). So it rings hollow to me as well, and feels like a shibboleth.

Regarding yours, I prefer more descriptive terms of respect for people like King, like "peace hero".

Given the enormous ongoing disrespect of minorities in this country by the dominate Euro-American culture, I think it would be appropriate to take a German approach and refer to King as MR. Dr. Martin Luther King.

I'd speculate that many of the nice white liberals who reflexively genuflect to King's acceptable forms of protest with things like the "Dr." honorific would reject his rhetoric on Vietnam

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of. I appreciate that John was able to read my mind, since I failed to actually express what I meant.

For instance, if I hear Hillary Clinton refer to "Dr. King" one more time, I'm going to rip off my ears. Which won't have the desired effect. But I'm so mad I can't think straight!

I think we should start to refer to him as Larry King.

Seriously, this sounds like you going nuts over nothing. The guy had a PhD, so you generally call him Dr. rather than Mr.

"radical cleric martin luther king, jr" doesn't work either

Actually, I like "Radical Cleric Martin Luther King, Jr." very much. It reminds me of "Radical Cleric Moqtada al-Sadr".

I knew we were in deep in Iraq once I learned that "Radical Cleric" is a first name in that country. I owe the US media for cluing me in to that truth.

A compromise: every time he's mentioned, call him Dr. King, but then be sure to immediately mention, apropos of nothing if need be, that Vietnam was a moral abomination that should consign Uncle Sam to the pits of hell. Let your audience figure out the connection. This should make conversations far more interesting.

I'm so mad I can't think straight!

My 3rd grade schoolteacher used to say, "Dogs go mad, people get angry."

Anywho, when I hear people say they're mad, I revert back to the 3rd grade. (I always wanted to say to her, "But what about insane, Mrs. Roskoski? Huh? Couldn't they be stark raving mad insane?". But I was too chickenshit -- that was in the days of corporal punishment and the ruler on knuckle whacking.)

...once I learned that "Radical Cleric" is a first name in that country

A honorific somewhat like "war criminal" or "warlord". Used to be calling someone warlord was enough to scare us into automatically devaluing the person and implicitly assenting that they deserve to be taken out. As we grew more sophisticated, we know that radical clerics are scarier; dangerously messing with empty, idle heads; filling them with subversive ideas and potential for violence. Handing out previously blessed explosive belts.

Certainly, not taking out a radical cleric is downright irresponsible.

Aaron D: "Radical cleric Martin Luther King" is really good.

angryman: My personal favorite is "strongman". Every time I hear that Hugo Chavez is a strongman, I always wonder how much he can clean and jerk. Same goes (or went) for Milosevic, Noriega, Saddam Hussein....

I just wonder if radical clerics can do more turning per day than regular clerics, or get extra healing spells or what.

Strongmen are giant muscly guys in singlets with handlebar mustaches that lift up those enormouse weights at the circus.

YOU GUYS!!! What would YOU call him if he had been WHITE?

Billy Graham King, Jr.

What really gets my biscuits burning is having to call Uncle Sam "Uncle."

My parents sneered at using "Dr." for anyone but medical doctors, and I guess I've absorbed their disapproval for the practice.

In a church setting, now and while alive, he was Rev. King. In a political one: Martin Luther King, Jr.

No matter how many times I hear it, I can't stop the tears at "But I'm not worried tonight; I'm not fearing any man...".

darrelplant -

I have taken to referring to him as "My Dirty Uncle Sam", which eases the sting a bit. The actual line from the lyric is "God bless my dirty uncle Sam".

BTW, does this also mean we should also decide to call Dr Phil something else from now on?

Did Billy Graham ever fight or die for someone else's civil rights?

Hillary Clinton could really broaden her appeal to young people if she referred to him as "K-Dawg", I think. For example: Supreme Ayatollah M. Luther K-Dawg could never have realized his empty hopes without Robert Kennedy illegally spying on him and threatening his family.

Back in the day, we used to call ourselves militant. Martin Luther King was a militant. I lost my mind in the 1970's literally with my conflicts and moral crisis. I used a lot of drugs to quell the demons. For the last 28 years I have been reflecting on doing the right things and staying sober with support groups.

Dr. King was killed for his militancy. He refused to step down, speak the obvious universal truths too loudly for the legitimate power base to hear. He kept dissenting. Power never concedes without struggle for superiority, and some "hick with a stick" killed him. Social consciousness is earned by the sacrifice of the collective. The collective is doped by TV, sex, and corporate concerns.

Our counter culture society was bought and sold in the sixties after Martin Luther King died. Dr. King is right of course, and he was brave enough to give us the answer. A peaceful revolution is the answer, but the question remains the same. Who will pay for the peaceful revolution? Speak the truth and pay the price. Many people dying comes before the lion lays down with the lamb. "Get busy living or get busy dying." The peaceful revolution will come only when enough people stand together for what is decent and right. If not now -- when?

"For instance, if I hear Hillary Clinton refer to "Dr. King" one more time, I'm going to rip off my ears. Which won't have the desired effect. But I'm so mad I can't think straight!"

Better to rip HER ears off, no, Jon?

I love it when black people use his full name and all the appendages - "The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr." I also like hearing his friends refer to him, when they're talking about the civil rights movement, as in, "Well, Martin King disagreed with that approach, you know," and suchlike.

Like David above, not happy with just King, not because people don't know whom you're talking about, but because of the absence of that extra respect. I use Dr. King a lot, but also refer to our long highway here in Cleveland to MLK Blvd., which isn't the same thing, of course, because it's not referring to King the man.

Kingdhiji, like Gandhiji, that's nice.

"I knew we were in deep in Iraq once I learned that "Radical Cleric" is a first name in that country. I owe the US media for cluing me in to that truth."

Aaron, wonderful, am still snorting with laughter.

Really like hearing people's comments about this, and no, I don't think it's a nothing issue.

No, "Dr. King" is an excellent, excellent name for him. Tough shit if fake, pandering assholes like Hilary use it.

It's respectful without being obsequious or worshipful, it's unique and instantly recognizable, and it reminds me when I use it that it wasn't that long ago that it was a *huge* deal for a black man to carry an honorific, to be given respect. Which of course instantly reminds me in turn that in a big part of the country, it's *still* a huge deal.

Which, as a white dude, I'm allowed to give a shit about, and to celebrate. Do you think I want to live in an ignorant-ass, backwards, racist country like something out of HG Wells?

how about Reverend King? Or MLK Guy, which vaguely suggests superhero status? No, I think I like Reverend King better.

(And I second the comment about ignoring the use of Doc by the HRCs of the world.)

Me, I'm more irritated by people not calling the president George Bush Junior.

In general, I agree, "Doctor" should be reserved for M.D.s. It never used to bother me much, though, until I began reading articles in computer magazines by guys (always guys, natch) whose last name was Ph.D. Must be one big family there. Now I see books, not always self-published, by people (still almost always guys) with the same last name. Generally the biographical information doesn't tell you what the Ph.D. was in.

I sometimes refer to King as "Dr. King," when it feels right in the context; other times as simply "King." "Reverend," never, because I'm an atheist and am wary of reverence. I will use the "Dr." partly for reasons that Jonathan gave: a sign of respect, because black Americans still don't get enough respect. But how many of you folks refer to Henry Kissinger as "Dr. Kissinger"? If Samantha Power had a Ph.D. (her advanced degree is from Harvard Law School), who'd call her "Dr. Power"? Not moi.

Um, this is a cultural thing. Outside the US, at least in Australia and UK, it's quite usual for PhD holders to be called Dr in all social and professional situations. In fact, those of us with real doctorates sometimes resent the fact that medical practitioners with bachelor degrees (MB in our system) get called Dr at all. So it might annoy you. It might also sound completely fine in other English speaking regions.

I notice that there are a lot of prominent PhDs whom nobody would ever refer to as "Dr."

For instance, nobody routinely refers to "Dr. Gingrich." Phil Gramm has a PhD too.

Condaleeza Rice has a doctorate, as does Ben Bernanke, but nobody calls them "Doctor."

I think it is obvious that calling MLK "Dr" is just pandering.

Um, some people do say Dr. Rice, although in her case it seems to be an attempt to make her latest indefensible conduct somehow respectable.

Cornel West sometimes says Dr. King, but more often says Brother King. Good enough for me.

I think that what rankles is the feeling that wankers are trying to appropriate King and his legacy, even when they clearly oppose it. On that, I'm completely with ya.

For instance, nobody routinely refers to "Dr. Gingrich." Phil Gramm has a PhD too. Condaleeza Rice has a doctorate, as does Ben Bernanke, but nobody calls them "Doctor."

No one calls them doctor, for the most part, because Senator >> Doctor. Why would you call someone doctor if you could call them Senator? For Rice, the same issue: Secretary of X >> doctor. Your logic is weak.

Plenty of black people call King just King. There's no mistaking him. I think the hypocrisy of whites who misuse his name is what makes the honorific "doctor" galling, not the use of it itself. The annoyance is a side-effect of the injustice, nothing more.