If any political party in the United States wanted to succeed (ie, not the Democrats) they would focus on providing social services.

Sure as heck worked for Hezbollah!

OK there's 2 possible planks right there-some form of universal health care and social services--- I inmmediately wish to promote Voter Initiative on the BUDGET and TAXES as a possible third.

...he apologized and said he'd caught five people already that day stealing food.

Where was this?

If it was some blighted inner city store, I shouldn't care. Now, if it's out in the upscale suburbs -- that's coming closer to home and could be troubling.

Jon, wasn't that exactly the kind of services that the political machines used to provide?

I'm not defending the machine system, but Jon's right, that sure would be useful. And will get more so as things grow tighter.

How about a business where in exchange for a nominal membership fee, you got this kind of assistance? Think that might work?

PS--You were totally stealin' those grapes.

Remember the Achille Lauro? The ship was named after a flamboyant mayor of Naples who got elected after dropping thousands of left shoes in people's mailboxes.

His campaign platform: "If I am elected, you'll get the right shoe!"

He was elected.

HAMAS!

damn it woody! beat me to the punch...seems to be working for these "terrorist" orginizations to get elected democratically. i tend to think if someone tried this here, theyd be locked up FAST for bangin hookers or cheatin on taxes or whatever they could dig up fastest. Maybe laughed out of town by our so called "media", under the old "this will never work" guise

Providing social services has been core to the local popularity of Hezbollah (Lebanon), Hamas (Palestine), the Sadrist Movement (Iraq), and probably many other quasi-political factions. It's a hugely effective strategy but is extremely expensive. None of the three main examples would be able to get away with this if not for external financial support and control over smuggling.

Where would a hypothetical American peoples' party get its money from to solve real problems? The traditional sources of political finance in the US are too wrapped up with creating problems for the people rather than solving them.

First, the insurance companies are out to take your money, so whether you have help understanding or not, you loose. Agree with Mike M. we need to look carefully at other nationalized models and move that direction. Second, rules and regs. have become so complex (largely to protect corporate interests) that I don't think *anyone* knows how to actually follow them. You can't teach what you don't know.

I'm not defending the machine system, but Jon's right, that sure would be useful. And will get more so as things grow tighter.

If other people are doing this stuff for you, aren't you encouraging the America in the "Age of Ignorance" point of view? Specifically:

...help people deal with the bureaucracy of 21st century America; ie, educating anyone who needs it on how to do their taxes, deal with their health insurance company, get the government benefits to which they're entitled, etc.

How can you get people involved enough to care about politics if a third party actively infantilizes them?

IMNSHO, the way to deal with -- ...Modern life is pretty damn complicated... -- is to reduce the complexity by regulating the variables -- through, uhh, reasonable regulation designed for stability.

Regulation may increase bureaucracy but it also limits the range of options and enforces stability on the players.

Stop lying!
Admit it, you haven't paid for grapes (or plantains) since Bush #41.

...Or Capri Sun for that matter.

Have you looked at the Working Families Party? It has a significant presence in New York, New Jersey and some other states too.

The WFP is issues-driven and is not concerned with electing its own candidates. The Party is most concerned with health care, affordable housing, schools and the well-being of the middle class.

You'd think that a political party could do well if it started paying attention to populist domestic policies, wouldn't you? Except...you're wrong. Oh, a party could get some attention and votes from a few people that way. But they'd lose just as many, because the opposing party will broadcast day and night about how the populist party is actually destroying America.

There are two ways of getting people to vote for you. One is to do things that help them. The other is to scream loudly enough to drown out your opponents. Guess which tactic has been adopted by both parties? You can't win a shouting match by being a soft-spoken altruist.

In the 1920s and early 1930s the Social Democrats in Vienna did what you propose. The blue collar and lower middle class population accepted the advice and social/cultural services and then turned out solidly to scream at the Hitler (1 million strong) welcome in 1938.
People turn on those who help them. Too many love the strong man. Hitler understood all too well. He gave them enough to love life under the Fascist boot. He might have been able to create a 1000 year Reich if he didn't insist on Lebensraum where others where already living.

How can you get people involved enough to care about politics if a third party actively infantilizes them?

You’re putting words in his mouth. educaion /= infantilizaion. By your logic, home ec. is a tool of corruption.

There is no way to reduce modern life to an “idiot-proof “ level of sophistication. The modern world simply has yoo much going on. While many regulations may be dispatched as coroporate largesse or stupidity, the bare minimum of regs, priorities, goals, and responsibilities still require a level of competence that cannot be assumed of 100% of the public. Hell, the basic requirements of citizenship necessary to make a democracy work are above such a level.

But political party top brass isn’t interested in doing anything for anyone but themselves. The Dems don’t have to go as far as what Jonathan said. It’s far simpler. I’ve been saying for years that a platform of complete (preventative and otherwise), lifetime healthcare for just veterans (alone!) could let them sweep into office.

Jonathan misses the point. The goal of a party is not to help its constituents but to enhance the personal power of its leadership. That’s why Gore rolled over in 2000. That’s why even Republicans will turn on their own. Our Congress honestly does not want to help you.

Remus Shepherd said:

a party could get some attention and votes from a few people that way. But they'd lose just as many, because the opposing party will broadcast day and night about how the populist party is actually destroying America.

This is incorrect. If said aid was combined with a voter mobilization movement, it would be horrendously successful. Voter registration is a huge barrier to democratic participation – as it was designed to be. (It was first employed to prevent free blacks from voting and – wait, it still does that.) Hell, voter registration drives alone have been extremely effective, which is why the Repugscheated during 2000 and 2004. High-ranking Dems, however, aren’t likely to be enthralled by these methods because increasing the number of constituents that vote increases the progressive demands upon them.

It all comes down to the character of the elected representatives, again.

The USofA needs to nationalize energy, health, and retirement 'industries.'
No other expedient will answer the growing demands for broader participation and fairer costs...

You’re putting words in his mouth. educaion /= infantilizaion. By your logic, home ec. is a tool of corruption.

There is no way to reduce modern life to an “idiot-proof “ level of sophistication.

Either I misunderstood Jon or you misunderstood me. When I read:

...ie, educating anyone who needs it on how to do their taxes, deal with their health insurance company, get the government benefits to which they're entitled, etc.

it was not education that was central but doing various things for them, that they found complex.

I think Mike of Angle might have read it the same way because he compared it to "political machines" (and they rely on patronage -- "doing" something for the members, rather than educating them).

Now, if he did mean -- provide a facility to educate them, then I don't know what that means -- because there's plenty of education, AND information available. People that don't know how to do taxes usually are too busy with multiple minimally paying jobs to actually dedicate themselves to the the intricacies -- someone else (a specialist) doing it for them is more useful than them learning things that they seldom use (what with the general complexity of their everyday lives, they need to concentrate on managing the important stuff). But when someone else does it for them, it does lead to distancing themselves from actual politics because they're acting through a proxy and what that proxy tells them. Essentially, they outsource it to someone they consider authoritative, and that does NOT lead to a personal understanding but relies on official or semi-official organs to interpret it. (Like WAPO interpreting social security for example).

So, if we want to help these people, IMO the best we can serve them by is to provide them with relative stability, and keep the promises made to them -- regarding finance, safety, consumption, education laws, etc. And I think reasonable regulation enhances that stability.

I did not say that I wanted to idiot-proof anything. There's a fairly large gap between idiot-proofing the system, and for example, regulating financial services so that we don't get the mess caused by greed that we're currently enjoying. The instability inherent in the sub-prime mess affects those that Jonathan wants to help disproportionately due to their inability to control change or rate of change.

My wife made the acquaintance of a police officer from Northern Kentucky (across the river from us in Cincinnati). He said gasoline drive-offs are epidemic there now, and without a license plate number they can't pursue / prosecute.

We've noticed an epidemic of runners in our neighborhood. (Not that I think running is a sickness. Mostly.) It looks like a lot of folks have eliminated their health club memberships.

Now if they'd stop running in the street and use the sidewalks in the morning when I'm leaving for work . . . .

Don't drag me into your anti-home ec jihad, Labiche. :-)

One trick Jesse Helms used to remain in office long past his due date was to employ a responsive staff for handling constituents' problems with Federal Bureaucracy™. Social Security check stop coming? Medicare refuse to pay for something? Problems dealing with the passport office? One call to Jesse's office and the matter was quickly resolved. Everyone in his home state knew this, and many supported him on election day merely as an insurance policy against future problems, even if they disagreed with him politically. {segue} My in-city neighborhood has experienced an increase in home burglaries mostly committed by groups of related minors. Besides grabbing Xboxes, CD's and jewelry, they're taking food.

"My wife made the acquaintance of a police officer from Northern Kentucky (across the river from us in Cincinnati). He said gasoline drive-offs are epidemic there now, and without a license plate number they can't pursue / prosecute."

Jack, but if you've used your credit card, how can you drive off unidentified? And if you've paid beforehand, which many places now require, again how?????

Jon, if they're Gallo grapes, go ahead, take all you want. And why did he think you were shoplifting? Either the grapes were visible in your cart or they were hidden on your body somewhere? How did you prove yourself a loyal tax-paying, grapepaying American?

Grapes, hell. They haven't seen anything yet. Except that people in poor economic circumstances have had trouble paying for food for decades. If these are middle-class folks starting to shoplift just because they don't think they should have to cut down on their lifestyle, then to hell with them.

To narrow the point a bit, since the parties will not, en masse, serve the public, I suspect that an individual in a party could serve his constituents best in a sort-of pork politics method. What would separate this from conventional pork is that the representative isn't giving handouts to private or narrow interests in his state, but clawing out cost of living reductions for the same. It would be no more difficult than your average bridge to nowhere.

THE INDIANS, though kept down in chronic poverty by US, manage on very little resourses to supply HEALTHCARE to ALL the tribe. Might be worth asking them---HOW!!!

Mike, I gotta ask.

What criteria do you use when capitalizing?

Because for the world, I can just imagine you talking like that -- a nice guy with somewhat challenged volume control circuits that every so often yells randomly during conversation. :-)

Maybe you can record a podcast so that we can hear? Is it Capt Kirk-ish?

Don't take it wrong. I find it quite endearing.

Labiche: VISUAL ART.

Actually that social service things is what politicians mainly do and it is how they stay in power at the state and local level. If you're in a kafkaesque bind with the DMV or the local old age home, email your local assemblyperson or state senator's office and watch 'em jump. It can be very satisfying and makes you feel geniune gratitude. In many states, this is all those guys really do -- their voting on bills is done mostly in blocs following the leaders without even reading the bills.

Michael