Are they so important if there are only five of them? Regardless of whether they are right or morally superior or whatever, how important can five people be in a nation of 300 million?

I AGREE whole heartedly with Mr. Henwoods accessment of the situation and its natural progression. (ah yes, business as usual.)

I'd have to agree with marcus's implicit point that the conceit of five members of the "non-crazy left" is a fairly obnoxious conceit.

If you're going to go w/ such a definition, than you should at least define your terms.

Signed,
the crazy left.

marcus:

Are they so important if there are only five of them? Regardless of whether they are right or morally superior or whatever, how important can five people be in a nation of 300 million?

Clearly you haven't noticed the MASSIVE SUCCESS the NCL has had in winning Americans over to the NCL's ideals.

Rojo:

I'd have to agree with marcus's implicit point that the conceit of five members of the "non-crazy left" is a fairly obnoxious conceit.

Just because I founded it doesn't mean that I'm a member.

Henwood is a very good and astute critic of capitalism but offers no real solution that I am aware of besides, I think, some kind of top down market socialism which a lot of marxists advocate...This s not a solution if one looks at the history of such IMHO....he is not alone regarding solutions and it is very big problem on the left since very, very few have even attempted to come up with some alternative that is compelling and worthy of effort.-Tony

I like Doug, but in the second part, he says that the government can't keep borrowing forever. That may be true, but it overlooks the fact that a government that is sovereign in its own currency does not HAVE to borrow money at all. It is why you can't compare a country that is sovereign in its own currency e.g. the US, with one that is not, e.g. Greece, or the US government with an ordinary household.

There is a distinction to be made between a government HAVING to borrow money, and CHOOSING to borrow money, and it is one of the most important distinctions that should be made in these times.

Mr Schwarz, though you founded the organisation NCL, are your ( ATR ) commenters allowed to nominate individuals for membership or is it going to be an "exclusive members" club?
If I may, I would like to nominate
1. Danny Schechter
2. Paul Street.

Not only these two individuals have identified problems but have always recommended plans for action to resolve them and both are proud to be called Socialists.
Mr Schechter's recent article is excellent though his frustration is very evident.

"On the Third Anniversary of the Crash of the Economy: 'Those Were the Days, My Friend. I Thought They'd Never End.' They Haven't"
here

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/08/03

Henwood's analysis is right on the mark. Now he will have to be killed.

Will that month's worth of Fridays all be on a single Wednesday in a different month?

I'm not sure what your definition of the non-crazy left is but based on this blog's ultra-liberal/leftist slant that is quite typical of what sadly passes for the "the left" today, I think it probably doesn't match my defintion. Today's left really has lost its way with its childish, knee-jerk anti-Western, anti-American, anti-Israel sentiments and its complete abandonment of its core principles of human rights, feminism and international solidarity.

For those interested, see the following posts for more on the decent/non-crazy left:

What's wrong with Chomsky?

That blog is worth reading for a non-crazy left perspective.

See also this post:

What is wrong is when the instinct is channelled through a worldview that only allows you to support the oppressed when they are darker skinned than their oppressors, or when the oppressed are Muslim and the oppressors are Christian or Jewish, or when the oppressors are allied with America. And what is also wrong is when the instinct blinds people to the obvious (“dialectical” as Marx would say) truth that the oppressed easily become the oppressors.

Here’s Kling: “If you think about it, the forces fighting America in Iraq consist of former oppressors and would-be future oppressors. But because America is a rich, powerful country, the folk Marxist instinct is to romanticize (‘insurgency’) the real oppressors and demonize (“occupation”) the real liberators.” This perverted instinct pervades the left and I have argued against it on this blog before.

...

I think there is such a thing, however, as folk Marxism, which also has a dangerous hold on the left, which Noam Chomsky has probably done the most to disseminate. This is the “vulgar materialist” belief that everything done in the world is down to material interests, to economics. The most common form of this position is the stupid “No blood for oil” slogan, which sees American foreign policy as nothing but the expression of the interests of robber baron petrocracy.

Knowledge and being right are fine things, in their place. When has a major national problem ever been solved in a thoughtful, reasoned manner? That isn't how it works. Things happen and we pretend to be in charge (or that someone else is). Not to say that apathy and ignorance are The Way. Do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, not because it is going to fix anything.

Sorry, I didn't know the USA had become a socialist utopia. I fled the country a couple of years ago, and now my only contact with the empire is through this blog and Coca Cola billboards.

“If you think about it, the forces fighting America in Iraq consist of former oppressors and would-be future oppressors. But because America is a rich, powerful country, the folk Marxist instinct is to romanticize (‘insurgency’) the real oppressors and demonize (“occupation”) the real liberators.” This perverted instinct pervades the left and I have argued against it on this blog before.

Is this suppose to be a joke?-Tony

rob your whole post was goofy but i'll just focus on one thing at a time, what the hell is a "folk marxist"??

---(“occupation”) the real liberators.” ---

A joke, perhaps, or maybe he's trying out for the AP by displaying his ability to write nonsense like this headline I just had the misfortune to come across:

"AP - Firmly and finally ending the U.S. combat mission in Iraq, President Barack Obama will have but a moment before trying to hasten peace nearby between Israelis and Palestinians."

@ Rob

"Today's left really has lost its way with its childish, knee-jerk anti-Western, anti-American, anti-Israel sentiments and its complete abandonment of its core principles of human rights, feminism and international solidarity."

Frankly, I do not understand what exactly you are trying to say. I do not give myself any labels but as Murfyn says, I do what I believe is the right thing to do according to my conscience.
Your stating, the left has abandoned core principles of Human Rights ( wonder how may followers of Beck and Hagee are active members of AI or HRW ), or International Solidarity ( International Palestinian Solidarity movement is the largest ever of its kind ) is rather difficult to understand.
And to take one issue at a time, what do you mean by anti-Israel? Against the state, the people or the govt policies? There is every reason to be critical of Israeli govt's policies and no one says it better than the great Israeli journalist Gideon Levy in the following excellent programme.
here

http://frontlineclub.com/blogs/theforum/2010/08/gideon-levy-in-conversation-with-jon-snow-why-the-medias-role-in-the-occupation-of-palestine-matters.html

ps on the video, please click NOT on the center arrow but the small one at the bottom, on the left.

continued.......
And if a segment of the Israeli society needs to be criticised, the following article says it all.....

"How to Kill Goyim and Influence People: Israeli Rabbis Defend Book's Shocking Religious Defense of Killing Non-Jews (with Video)"

A rabbinical guidebook for killing non-Jews has sparked an uproar in Israel and exposed the power a bunch of genocidal theocrats wield over the government
here

http://www.alternet.org/story/148016/

I am anti-WAR, anti-TORTURE ( these are actions ). I am NOT anti-ANY PERSON.

If you define what you mean by anti-American ( govt, people etc ) or anti-Western ( music, art etc ), it would be easier to respond to your comment.

Also, not being interested in sports does not make a person "Elite" or "cold" and enjoying Bach/Beethoven/Jazz but not enjoying say 'country music' does not make one an outcast. Is it not possible for people to have different tastes?

And here I thought only Warren Buffett understands Wall Street!

Henwood is pretty good. He understands economics quite well for a Yale grad, and I like his book Wall Street (which can actually be downloaded online due to his generosity!) That scholarship and dedication speaks very well of him, professorial cross eyes and all, and I would endorse him more enthusiastically but for the bug I have up my ass about people who get bent out of shape about "9/11 wingnuttery" and "crazy conspiricism," like those are real problems in the world. Alas, Henwood is somebody else who wants to figure out the world--but only up to a point. He isn't going to cross the intellectual Rubicon that keeps the crazy barbarians from taking over his brain, so he isn't going to understand some things that the crazy barbarians definitely do understand. So it goes.

That being said, Tony, you seriously can't fault Henwood for not having solutions. Sure his approach of "market socialism"--which I take to be coping with the irrationalities markets create and perpetuate by rational taxation and regulation--founders on political, social, and perhaps neurological realities that will likely doom such efforts in the future just as effectively as they have been doomed up until now. So yes, Henwood has no real solutions, but nobody else does either, even the anarchists (though I greatly admire their commitment and willingness to buck society). Every solution founders but for hope, and hope is hard to figure. All that's clear is that life continues to require courage and is best served by the old virtues--liberty, equality, and fraternity--which is, come to think of it, perhaps just three ways to say love.

PRINT MORE MONEY, DUMP IT ON MAINSTREET, call Pelosi @1-202-225-0100. Stop banker welfare.

I agree with Mike Meyer.

Henwood seems solid on economics, but is really weak when it comes to real science. His critiques of peak oil theory sound a lot like global warming deniers in winter. If oil prices, drop 10%, we're suddenly all good. To rationalize his skepticism in light of increasing evidence, he's redefined peak oil to mean "OMG, we're all out of oil" rather than a production peak.

On the other hand, he has great taste in music. Unlike Chomsky, who's clearly a Cylon. (Thanks, Rob, for the heads up on that inhuman bastard.)

As far as I can tell the non-crazy left is not a club at all, insofar as clubs by their nature are not inclusive. but then my humor of sense has often been hit or miss. keep in mind the establishment media's relentless drive to tell you that your neighbors are stupid and your beliefs, if not similarly stupid, are wrong and bad.(and therefore, paradoxically, stupid.)

Maybe the 'non crazy left' is millions of people, most of who keep their mouths shut for fear of being accused of being stupid, or worse yet, stupidity.

There is no left.

@NE -

For this:

"All that's clear is that life continues to require courage and is best served by the old virtues--liberty, equality, and fraternity--which is, come to think of it, perhaps just three ways to say love."

I am very grateful. Thank you.

Speaking of fraternity for some, and the killing of goyim, see Chris Floyd's article "Innocent Executioners: An Illustration of the Principles of Western Civilization in the Modern World".

[click on my name for this post to go there]

Rob, the article on Chomsky is bullshit -- he cites Oliver Kamm, for heaven's sake, and the rest of it is simply false. If that's what you consider the non-crazy left, you're crazy.

That being said, Tony, you seriously can't fault Henwood for not having solutions.

Hello NE,

Well my comment was really directed at Henwood himself but more toward the left in general....The left is very good at saying what is wrong but not to good on solutions....That being the case, and I think it is so, we cant really be that upset when we fail to build movements for change....That seems like common sense to me...

Sure his approach of "market socialism"--which I take to be coping with the irrationalities markets create and perpetuate by rational taxation and regulation--founders on political, social, and perhaps neurological realities that will likely doom such efforts in the future just as effectively as they have been doomed up until now.

Cant really make heads or tails of this paragraph NE but it I think you don't understand the term market socialism

So yes, Henwood has no real solutions, but nobody else does either,

That's not true....people have proposed alternatives to capitalism all through history...most not too compelling in my opinion...you have state guided socialism-actually a contradiction in terms but never mind- on say the Soviet model which speaks for itself...you have market socialism which still accepts markets as an allocation system and as basically correct in such and so on...you have Michael Alpert's Parecon which you can read about in spades over on znet and so on.....There are alternative proposals but most just aren't any good and that is the problem...Personally I think Albert's are the best by far but you can read it and judge for yourself...

even the anarchists (though I greatly admire their commitment and willingness to buck society).

Well the anarchists in Spain did show an example of a democratic run economy...probably histories best example but it certainly had flaws...but these are not easy questions to deal with and I dont think the left will ever be what it could be unless we have a vision that inspires the general population to work for change that go beyond reforms and looks to overturn this crazy lunacy of an economy.-Tony

So who are the five?

I think Jon must be referring to the Final Five Cylons. So, I guess they're Anders, Tigh, Ellen, Tyrol, and Tory.

Hi toni, good to hear you.

You wrote: "Cant really make heads or tails of this paragraph NE but it I think you don't understand the term market socialism."

I don't.

You wrote: "That's not true....people have proposed alternatives to capitalism all through history...most not too compelling in my opinion" and "but these are not easy questions to deal with and I dont think the left will ever be what it could be unless we have a vision that inspires the general population to work for change that go beyond reforms and looks to overturn this crazy lunacy of an economy"

--That's pretty much what I meant when I said that neither Henwood nor anybody else having solutions, because though Alpert and others have lots of things to say, no one has anything that could be mistaken for an impending solution.

Getting people on board is definitely the challenge. The problem with booze, drugs, sex, porn, gambling, whoring, gluttony, and other temptations is that (so I've heard) they can be kind of fun for a while, and the outer limit on that while seems to be seven or eight decades. Eventually there's hell to pay, of course, but eventually can take quite some time.

Brockley is part of the "Decent Left." It seems to be mostly a British phenomenon that American readers may have been lucky enough not to encounter. It's a few steps down on a totem pole that culminates in Harry's Place. See The Encyclopedia of Decency for a primer if you're so inclined.

That's pretty much what I meant when I said that neither Henwood nor anybody else having solutions, because though Alpert and others have lots of things to say, no one has anything that could be mistaken for an impending solution.

I see...I didnt realize this is what you meant...I agree. there is no impending solution and there wont be until people are willing to work to make it so...hence my original point about the failure of the left of presenting alternatives that are worthwhile. -Tony

@Rob, thanks for the plug!

@Tony & Blackplates, maybe read Rob's comment a bit more swowly, then have another go at having a go at him, because it isn't clear what you're having a go at - Kling, the conservative who talks about "folk marxism", me who argues with him, or Rob who quotes me?

@Duncan, what are the lies in my post on Chomsky?

@Save the Oocytes, sort of decent. See http://brockley.blogspot.com/2010/08/triangulating-bobism-1-harryism-and.html