I seem to recall that book having a lot about how the problem was that we kept electing old white people president.

my request.....

PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION.
Thank you.

here

http://campaigns.dailykos.com/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=276&tag=1215em5

"There is no such thing as society", said she.

"But what about the children?"

"They will be free".

"Of anomie?"

"C'est la vie."

I've seen a few comments in various places suggesting that the way to avoid mass shootings by crazy people is to cure the pathologies in American society, as manifested in our foreign policy or whatever. It's irritating and stupid. The problem is the guns.

I've seen a few comments in various places suggesting that the way to avoid mass shootings by crazy people is to cure the pathologies in American society, as manifested in our foreign policy or whatever. It's irritating and stupid. The problem is the guns.

PLEASE petition White House directly and demand immediate action...... 123000 have already signed it. The President MUST BE made to act..

here

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-address-issue-gun-control-through-introduction-legislation-congress/2tgcXzQC

a crazy person kills dozens of people in connecticut

a taxpayer-funded organization "defending our freedom" kills thousands of people in the country whose capital is kabul

life during wartime

Can't steal The Red Man's unless ya gotta gun.

mistah charlie ph.d. EXACTLY!!!

Can't steal the Afghanis' land(resources, way-o-life, human dignity) unless ya gots lots-o-guns AND some B-52s.

Rupa Shah: Though I have GREAT RESPECT 4 YOU, I'll not sign ANYTHING against OUR Constitution. LOOK at the police state WE have become. I'll not lend my hand toward that end.
WE ROUTINELY KILL 20-40 people, HUMAN BEINGS, men women AND CHILDREN, in the middle east with drone strikes. OUR government gives no value to those folks and when the majority in this country has been disenfranchised of OUR VOTE enough, then WE will not have any value either.
WE PAY to have Gaza bombed indiscriminately on particularly exciting political events in Palestine/Israel,YET NO ONE seems to talk much about the CHILDREN there. None of their pictures or stories are on TV 24/7, days on end. KIDS IN KABUL KILLED by US, I have yet to learn about their life stories or their parents woe 24/7 on TV.
Children are children, none more valueable than the next, even if they are American.

@ godoggo

I agree, "The problem is the guns". But a bigger problem is who has access to them, how they are acquired. I was shocked to hear on the news, 47% of American households have guns, 40% are bought online and there is hardly any background check.
In majority of these horrible tragedies, the individual carrying out the killing has been mentally ill... whether with the illness from childhood or acquired due to personal circumstances. Sadly, in school, even when red flags go up about a child's unstable mental status, there are no mechanisms to adequately help the child or in the adult population, mental health care is never given a priority.
To REALLY address the problem, the law makers and society as a whole are going to have to approach this from multiple angles.

It's not like banning guns in America is going to cause more kids in Afghanistan to get killed.

...or restricting them.

I posted my previous comment at the same time as Rupa Shah's last one.

1 I have posted the petition with a request to sign. This is a free country and no body is required to do it if he/she does not wish to.

2 To me, there is no comparison between the horrible tragedy of what happens to children in Afghanistan/Gaza and other places and the horrible tragedy of what happened here. They are equally heart breaking and as far as I am concerned one is not deserving of more or less compassion than the other or that one is less horrible than the other.

As a human being and as an American, I am going to fight the govt's policies that kill children in foreign countries and with the same passion, I will fight the insane ( my point of view ) domestic policy of allowing access to "firearm of any kind" to anyone, anywhere, anyhow.

Rupa Shah: Show me the petition against OUR foreign policy. I'll sign it. Should THAT petition change things, I'll help with this one.
WE can't have it BOTH ways, Folks. Slaughter OUR neighboring nations and NOT get a taste of it here doesn't happen. Both ARE tied together, death by bullets, fired by people with hate in their hearts. I look at it as karma, payment in full for ONE wedding party among many that were bombed in a ten year war. The hundreds of thousands of innocents WE bombed to death in SEVERAL nations don't go unnoticed. Their BLOOD cries out from the dust of the earth. WE have become a foolish nation to think otherwise. Its just as foolish to think this is the last, that this is all WE must pay. Just because there is NO JUSTICE in America doesn't mean there isn't JUSTICE on the earth anymore, that the Bin Ladens of this world or OUR MANY random shooters are the only ones that must pay and the rest of US slide.
Want to stop the killing? STOP PAYING FOR IT. Stop supporting MICFIC, quit spending 2/3 of the budget on killing machines, THEN MAYBE, the loose nuts WE raise here will follow by example.
This Adam Lanza, obviously deeply disturbed, obviously unable to get proper treatment or, in the very least, restraint of some sort, in a land that such help probably would have cost the family farm, finally breaks and ends up costing EVERYONE, and yet ALL direction, ALL energy will be spent on a political theatre that changes absolutely nothing.

Well, I'll sign the petition, anyway. Sooner or later. Don't cost nothin'.

OT: While listening to the BBC last night , there was a story From Afghanistan about TEN LITTLE GIRLS, ages around 9/10 yrs old were killed by a land mine while gathering firewood. These young children were schoolkids with a chance for a future of change and advancement for themselves and their nation, now ALL GONE. THREE FAMILIES LOST THEIR PRECIOUS CHILDREN. Perhaps, some day, land mines will be illegal.

NOW comes my question--WHOSE land mine was it??? Could have been an old Russky land mine, or one of OURS, since WE ARE the new invaders of choice. (WE CHOSE to invade Afghanistan a few years back)

Mr. Meyer, I guess when you pile up that many weapons, it's inevitable you're gonna use 'em. Tools ain't theories after all. Tools exist to get used. Mary Baker Eddy had a point. Expecting danger opens space for danger. It becomes an ingression for danger.

BenP: AGREED. More of the tools of war are being hammered out as WE speak. In essence THAT is the question--Weapons of War. The argument WE WILL hear in the next few weeks is basically "Well, someone can't have bazooka at home or a howitzer, then they shouldn't have an assault style weapon. (These semi-auto weapons are NOT true assault rifles as they aren't fully automatic.)
When I was young I had several semi-auto 22 rifles which LOOKED much like a bolt action single shot. In fact, if one looks in the paper today, one will most likely see many ads for assault style TOY GUNS for Christmas sales. Its a way to TRAIN OUR sons and now daughters to be SOLDIERS. One can buy a 223 semi-auto or really ANY caliber that looks like a HUNTING RIFLE, will fire rounds just exactly like the assault style, hold the SAME magazines and yet those rifles won't be banned.
I call it SOLDIER BLING and I've noticed these shooters come in wearing the complete kit.
WE glorify war and OUR Military even when wrongful invasions, strait up murder of non-combatants, and TORTURE are consistently going on.( Abu-Grahab, GITMO, Baghram)THEN WE get on a high horse when these events happen and in panic want the laws changed IMMEDIATELY.
OUR business in the world is Weapons-O-War. WE make them here and it IS OUR biggest business. WE make MORE AND BETTER Weapons-O-War than ANYONE else. The defense industry OWNS Congress including Nancy Pelosi&Barbara Feinstein. Their god is Mars&money& WE-The-People are their BLOOD sacrifice& apparently WE LOVE IT, WE KEEP PAYING&PAYING&PAYING 4 IT. THE PRICE OF WAR=BLOOD&TREASURE. Nobody seems to want to stop it either.

Mike's question about land mines is a good one, which I'm totally ignorant about, but I figured a good place to start would be Wikipedia:

In 1999, the year of the entry into force of the Ottawa Treaty, Landmine Monitor recorded the probable use of antipersonnel landmines by 15 states. By 2009, the only states known to have continued using antipersonnel landmines were Burma and Russia.[5]

As of 2008, Landmine Monitor reported that as many as 35 states not party still stockpiled an estimated 160 million mines. The vast majority of these stockpiles belong to China (about 110 million), Russia (about 24.5 million) and the United States (10.4 million).[6]

Since 1999, the use of antipersonnel mines and mine-like improvised explosive devices (IEDs) by non-state armed groups (NSAGs) have been reported in at least 28 countries. 19 of these countries were States Parties, while 9 countries were States not party. In 2008, NSAG use of landmines and IEDs was confirmed in seven countries, three of which are States Parties.[7] However, while landmine use continues to decrease, the use of IEDs has increased significantly, especially in Afghanistan and Colombia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Campaign_to_Ban_Landmines#cite_note-5

I thought I'd also check the Landmine Monitor Report for 2012:

Use, transfer, production, and stockpiling

The last known US use of antipersonnel mines was in 1991.[20] There were reports in 2009 and 2010 of US forces in Afghanistan using Claymore directional fragmentation mines.[21] However, these munitions are not prohibited under the Mine Ban Treaty if used in command-detonated mode.[22]

In February 2012, US officials confirmed implementation of the 2004 policy directive to end the use of so-called persistent (non-self-destructing) mines by the end of 2010. [23] In its CCW Amended Protocol II Article 13 report, delivered March 2012, the US provided the following statement:

“Beginning January 1, 2011, the United States no longer uses any persistent landmines anywhere. All persistent landmines, both anti-personnel and anti-vehicle, have been transferred to inactive inventory and will be destroyed in accordance with U.S. DoD policies and procedures”.

According to the statement, the United States’ entire stockpile of landmines now has the features of self-destruct and self-deactivation specifications provided in Amended Protocol II landmines.[24]

The US is retaining a small quantity of “persistent mines” for demining and counter-mine testing and training.[25]

On 26 December 2007, the comprehensive US moratorium on the export of antipersonnel mines was extended for six years until 2014.[26] US law has prohibited all antipersonnel mine exports since 23 October 1992, through a series of multi-year extensions of the moratorium.

The US has not produced antipersonnel mines since 1997. It is one of just 12 countries in the world that either still actively produces the weapon or reserves the right to do so.[27] However, the US currently has no plans to produce antipersonnel mines in the future. There are no victim-activated munitions being funded in the procurement or the research and development budgets of the US Armed Services or Department of Defense.

Two programs that once had the potential for victim-activated features (thereby making them antipersonnel mines as defined by the Mine Ban Treaty), but that are now solely “man-in-the-loop” (command-detonated, and therefore permissible under the treaty), are being funded: XM-7 Spider Networked Munition and IMS Scorpion.[28]

In light of the termination in 2008 of the War Reserve Stocks for Allies, Korea (WRSA-K) program, and the US policy of prohibiting use of non-self-destructing antipersonnel mines in Korea after 2010, it appears that the approximately half a million mines stored in South Korea will be removed and destroyed.[29]

The Monitor has been reporting, based on official 2002 data, that the US has a stockpile of approximately 10.4 million antipersonnel mines.[30] However, knowledgeable sources have indicated to the Monitor that the current active stockpile is far smaller, and that millions of stockpiled mines have been removed from service and have been or will be destroyed.”Use, transfer, production, and stockpiling

The last known US use of antipersonnel mines was in 1991.[20] There were reports in 2009 and 2010 of US forces in Afghanistan using Claymore directional fragmentation mines.[21] However, these munitions are not prohibited under the Mine Ban Treaty if used in command-detonated mode.[22]

In February 2012, US officials confirmed implementation of the 2004 policy directive to end the use of so-called persistent (non-self-destructing) mines by the end of 2010. [23] In its CCW Amended Protocol II Article 13 report, delivered March 2012, the US provided the following statement:

“Beginning January 1, 2011, the United States no longer uses any persistent landmines anywhere. All persistent landmines, both anti-personnel and anti-vehicle, have been transferred to inactive inventory and will be destroyed in accordance with U.S. DoD policies and procedures”.

According to the statement, the United States’ entire stockpile of landmines now has the features of self-destruct and self-deactivation specifications provided in Amended Protocol II landmines.[24]

The US is retaining a small quantity of “persistent mines” for demining and counter-mine testing and training.[25]

On 26 December 2007, the comprehensive US moratorium on the export of antipersonnel mines was extended for six years until 2014.[26] US law has prohibited all antipersonnel mine exports since 23 October 1992, through a series of multi-year extensions of the moratorium.

The US has not produced antipersonnel mines since 1997. It is one of just 12 countries in the world that either still actively produces the weapon or reserves the right to do so.[27] However, the US currently has no plans to produce antipersonnel mines in the future. There are no victim-activated munitions being funded in the procurement or the research and development budgets of the US Armed Services or Department of Defense.

Two programs that once had the potential for victim-activated features (thereby making them antipersonnel mines as defined by the Mine Ban Treaty), but that are now solely “man-in-the-loop” (command-detonated, and therefore permissible under the treaty), are being funded: XM-7 Spider Networked Munition and IMS Scorpion.[28]

In light of the termination in 2008 of the War Reserve Stocks for Allies, Korea (WRSA-K) program, and the US policy of prohibiting use of non-self-destructing antipersonnel mines in Korea after 2010, it appears that the approximately half a million mines stored in South Korea will be removed and destroyed.[29]

The Monitor has been reporting, based on official 2002 data, that the US has a stockpile of approximately 10.4 million antipersonnel mines.[30] However, knowledgeable sources have indicated to the Monitor that the current active stockpile is far smaller, and that millions of stockpiled mines have been removed from service and have been or will be destroyed.

http://www.the-monitor.org/index.php/cp/display/region_profiles/theme/2291

So, it looks like the U.S. hasn’t used the sort of mine that goes off automatically if you step on it, but does use the kind I can set off if I see you step on it (which isn’t banned) fwiw.

... hasn't used them since 1991, that is.

Sorry, I pasted that quote in twice in a row.

godoggo: According to the report, one of the children hit the mine with an ax.

(Edited version of earlier post; it would be super if that one could be remofved, and I swear I did use preview).

Mike's question about land mines is a good one, which I'm totally ignorant about, but I figured a good place to start would be Wikipedia:

In 1999, the year of the entry into force of the Ottawa Treaty, Landmine Monitor recorded the probable use of antipersonnel landmines by 15 states. By 2009, the only states known to have continued using antipersonnel landmines were Burma and Russia.[5]

As of 2008, Landmine Monitor reported that as many as 35 states not party still stockpiled an estimated 160 million mines. The vast majority of these stockpiles belong to China (about 110 million), Russia (about 24.5 million) and the United States (10.4 million).[6]

Since 1999, the use of antipersonnel mines and mine-like improvised explosive devices (IEDs) by non-state armed groups (NSAGs) have been reported in at least 28 countries. 19 of these countries were States Parties, while 9 countries were States not party. In 2008, NSAG use of landmines and IEDs was confirmed in seven countries, three of which are States Parties.[7] However, while landmine use continues to decrease, the use of IEDs has increased significantly, especially in Afghanistan and Colombia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Campaign_to_Ban_Landmines#cite_note-5

I thought I'd also check the Landmine Monitor Report for 2012:

Use, transfer, production, and stockpiling

The last known US use of antipersonnel mines was in 1991.[20] There were reports in 2009 and 2010 of US forces in Afghanistan using Claymore directional fragmentation mines.[21] However, these munitions are not prohibited under the Mine Ban Treaty if used in command-detonated mode.[22]

In February 2012, US officials confirmed implementation of the 2004 policy directive to end the use of so-called persistent (non-self-destructing) mines by the end of 2010. [23] In its CCW Amended Protocol II Article 13 report, delivered March 2012, the US provided the following statement:

“Beginning January 1, 2011, the United States no longer uses any persistent landmines anywhere. All persistent landmines, both anti-personnel and anti-vehicle, have been transferred to inactive inventory and will be destroyed in accordance with U.S. DoD policies and procedures”.

According to the statement, the United States’ entire stockpile of landmines now has the features of self-destruct and self-deactivation specifications provided in Amended Protocol II landmines.[24]

The US is retaining a small quantity of “persistent mines” for demining and counter-mine testing and training.[25]

On 26 December 2007, the comprehensive US moratorium on the export of antipersonnel mines was extended for six years until 2014.[26] US law has prohibited all antipersonnel mine exports since 23 October 1992, through a series of multi-year extensions of the moratorium.

The US has not produced antipersonnel mines since 1997. It is one of just 12 countries in the world that either still actively produces the weapon or reserves the right to do so.[27] However, the US currently has no plans to produce antipersonnel mines in the future. There are no victim-activated munitions being funded in the procurement or the research and development budgets of the US Armed Services or Department of Defense.

Two programs that once had the potential for victim-activated features (thereby making them antipersonnel mines as defined by the Mine Ban Treaty), but that are now solely “man-in-the-loop” (command-detonated, and therefore permissible under the treaty), are being funded: XM-7 Spider Networked Munition and IMS Scorpion.[28].

http://www.the-monitor.org/index.php/cp/display/region_profiles/theme/2291

So, it looks like the U.S. hasn’t used the sort of mine that goes off automatically if you step on it since 1991, but does use the kind I can set off if I see you step on it (which isn’t banned) fwiw.

Sorry, Mike, posting simultaneously again.

OK, I finally got around to signing the petition. My attitude is just that this series of massacres makes it a politically opportune time to do the sane thing on this one issue. Even some gun nuts are coming around I hear.

OUR business in the world is Weapons-O-War. WE make them here and it IS OUR biggest business. WE make MORE AND BETTER Weapons-O-War than ANYONE else. The defense industry OWNS Congress including Nancy Pelosi&Barbara Feinstein. Their god is Mars&money& WE-The-People are their BLOOD sacrifice& apparently WE LOVE IT, WE KEEP PAYING&PAYING&PAYING 4 IT. THE PRICE OF WAR=BLOOD&TREASURE. Nobody seems to want to stop it either.

*nods*
Death Inc is our Gordian Knot.

I think most everybody cares though Mike! To paraphrase the late great Joe Bageant, the problem is 'most everybody' lacks the vocabulary necessary to even describe the problem. Most everybody is hilariously balkanized and inarticulate about our common needs. If we can't describe the thing how we gonna transcend it?

Ginsu Knife Ex Machina: Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on the Democratic and Republican parties. Slogan: "Lets make sure the ship we sink on is relatively clean".

@ Mike Meyer
If you are interested in Action Alerts regarding our administration's foreign policy, if you sign up for email newsletters from 1. Just Foreign Policy, 2. Roots Action and 3. Jewish Voice for Peace, there will be petitions that will address your concerns and you may want to sign those petitions.
Also, there are two International petition websites which deal with various issues, Avaaz and change.org that might interest you.
As regards the petition to the White House, it is not MY petition or YOUR petition. It is OUR, the American Peoples' petition , Americans who would like to see commonsense approach to firearm ownership.

btw I think I may have taken this thread off track with some initial obnoxious language, which was an emotional reaction to... something.

Rupa Shah: THANX!
An added point---in a 1939 SCOTUS decision, June 1939 I believe, sawed off shotguns(18 inches or under in barrel length) were declared illegal because they were considered UNUSABLE ON THE BATTLEFIELD, illegal because they were NOT weapons of war. Also in the definition of militia was determined to be ANY AMERICAN MALE 18 OR OVER.

godoggo: Since those kids were searching for fire wood, since the weapon was hit with an ax which set it off, I'm thinking the weapon was an old claymore. Claymores are routinely mounted in trees during ambushes. I believe an ax could EASILY bypass ANY safety device in the mine. It could ALSO just as easily have bee an old BURIED soviet mine and the child was chopping a piece of wood laying on the ground.
A second point is that local folks work around (stated in the report) that area. A minefield of buried mines would have a history of deaths as one buried mine, unless it had been missed in a clearing operation, would be ineffective unless placed on a road or other well traveled spot. An ambush might cover an uncommonly traveled trail where insurgents may use. That situation could use claymores with a manned trigger IF other troops were hidden to complete the ambush and were following the UN rules concerning mines.
Either way SOMEONE KILLED TEN LITTLE GIRLS, and in such a way as only 4 of the bodies were identifiable.
This also could point to a claymore. A buried mine blows straight up, the hole in which its buried acts much like a gun barrel. A claymore covers a wide area. It fires ballbearings, 180 count, I believe if my memory of my military training serves me well, over a 180 degree wide horizontal area. It SHREDS EVERYTHING in its path. Unless all the Girls were crowded around the same piece of wood then it seems to me that more of the bodies would be identifiable were the weapon to be buried in the ground. Whereas an above ground mounted weapon would SHRED THOSE CHILDREN even if they were spread out.

Well, I got nothing more to add.

I looked at a few articles. The claim is that it was "probably hidden in a field," not buried.

godoggo: THANX, I didn't know that. Heard the BBC do the report one time and didn't catch that part. NO 24/7 media coverage on this particular incident which, I suppose, is what it takes anymore for me to pick up on ALL the facts worth knowing. Still waiting to see if their names or any other knowledge on the matter shows up in OUR press. TEN CHILDREN and not much more than a sound bite worth of info, sad. Hopefully someone is investigating.

Here's a decent roundup with links to articles with name (in Al Jazeera) etc.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/afghanistan/121217/afghanistan-girls-killed-landmine-nangarhar

I'm utterly sick of violence, the threat of violence, societies desensitized to violence through its media; political systems which equate consumer and rentier capitalism with democracy; and the continued, soothing enrichment of a tiny segment of the population at the expense of nearly every other goddamned person on the planet.

There a petition for that?

Well, you can always petition the Lord with prayer.

"Well, you can always petition the Lord with prayer"

Better still, you can start your own petition at....
http://www.change.org/start-a-petition
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

As violence can be of different types ( wars, gangs ) or against different groups ( domestic violence ), there is no generic petition against 'VIOLENCE"....one can always start one against specific type of violence.
Another Action alert group is Credo Action which sends out petitions on variety of issues including violence.

Unusual way to make public aware of consequences of military intervention........ wonderful.

here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q8nsL-MOYu0

From the blog post "If democratic character is lost, America has the potential to deteriorate into a rather brutish place, ruled by naked power and random social aggression."
That naked power and tendency to social aggression have sadly gone beyond the borders with a vengeance and by the govt!

AND, here is another petition where we can try and prevent a LOBBY from derailing nomination for a cabinet post of a very qualified choice....... and which would have far reaching positive outcomes if nominated and confirmed....

here

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/nominate-chuck-hagel-secretary-defense-and-fight-his-nomination/P0ZtympX

Rupa Shah: THANX AGAIN. I looked at those pictures and thought, "Some of those bullet holes are OURS, and those poor people living in the bombed out zone in those pictures, why, those are the ones WE missed." (maybe)

Rupa Shah: THANX AGAIN. I looked at those pictures and thought, "Some of those bullet holes are OURS, and those poor people living in the bombed out zone in those pictures, why, those are the ones WE missed." (maybe)

Or consider what Margaret Atwood wrote in Our faith is fraying in the god of money: "Before [the French revolution], a privileged class that made the rules — rules favouring itself — overspent on a foreign war and then tried to stabilise the nation by overtaxing the already ruinously taxed populace. Confronted with protest, the aristocrats responded with inflexibility and prevarication, and dedicated themselves to preserving their own advantages at the expense of everyone else. If this sounds in any way familiar, it may be bracing to recall that before long, heads were being sliced from necks, blood was running in the streets…"

Watching the Walking Dead (I know) has made me wonder if maybe the Zombie Apocalypse has already happened.

Watching the Walking Dead (I know) has made me wonder if maybe the Zombie Apocalypse has already happened.

N.E.: In the case of Dick Cheney YOU may well have a solid point there.